ImcUk8Sept2006

From Aktivix
Jump to: navigation, search

Back to [ImcUK]

This page is out of date, refer to https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/UkNetworkMeeting2006irc8Sept2006 instead.


Minutes irc meeting 8 Sep 06 8 - 9.30pm aprox.

Minutes

venue

The proposed venue in Birmingham is not an option any more.

The alternative is leeds - they have already been asked about either 7 or 14 october - not 21 because it is the anarchist bookfair in london. Stuart from Leeds answered on imc-uk-process list that mid-november would be ok for Commonplace: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-process/2006-September/0915-m7.html

Another alternative, if leeds is not available either, could be rampart, london, but it is understood that london should be avoided.

date

We realise that a months notice could be too short notice for people to take the time off and for the venue.

draft agenda

1. website a. promoted newswire b. non-linear startpage c. other press/blogs section d. training for admin e. moderation f. privacy issues g. kollectives

a. the promoted newswire have been implemented for while now, and it seems to be working quite well. but the question now is: do we want it to be the default view? some people have argued that the promoted nw is not working so well to make it the default view, and this links to the moderation issue there's also the question of open publsihing ethos.

b. there was a discussion a while back about the our linear startpage. this was seen as a bit of problem, especially with some really long abstract, so there is one or 2 features occupying the whole startpage. the idea was have something more vibrant and interactive, like nyc.indy for example.

f. deleting people's personal information to avoid attacks on people's homes - might also be included in general moderation though. It's contentious enough, it probably needs its own space

3. relationship between the uk kollectives and the uk site

more prominance to regional kollective's features too - how we're presented on the uk site?

4. legal and financial stuff

5. the server or servers?

6. long-term view, given the stuff coming out of recent global tech meetings about shifting towards standard CMSes rather than the custom ones we're using at the moment

(6. possibly as a workshop, or separate section at the same time as a mir training, for instance - not one for a plenary session)

programme

We work on the basis of having it like other years, first plennary, then separations, then report backs and plennary again. Unless someone has a proposed alternative.

On the first plennary, to start with, short presentation of each collective, or kollective, that attends.

back to 3. draft agenda

g. kollectives

a. inactive kollectives/new kollectives b. lack of features on regional sites c. syndication of regional features on UK newswire

h. feedback from the pga conference

at least in the issues that affect indymedia, servers, security issues, i. legal and financial stuff

separate workshops rather than plennary

j. aktivix

also separate workshop - like when indymedia has small meetings in pga conferences

k. global relations ... we don't have a single liaison right now

(that would be a 2-minute thing on a plenary)

l. administration levels

london asked a while ago for different levels of 'admin priviledges'. nowadays there are the admins that can hide stuff, and create features, and create topics, and promote, and the admins who can create other admins, and that's it. proposal to create an intermediate level, for instance one that could promote stuff but not create or delete topics.

m. worshop on investigative journalism and 'high-quality' features

n. short feedback from climate camp or even from edinbrough

to distill some thoughts from those before the next big event, how effective it is to be in camps like these; maybe we need to find a more lightweight way to do it that doesn't take up so many people's time, it often seems that dispatch is done more efficiently off site though

o. transport vehicle

to get kit to/from those kind of events, but having it on a permanent basis

Next irc meeting

Tues 19th at 8pm again

Complete Logs


Sep 08 19:39:33 *	Topic for #uk is: Irc network meeting: Fri, Sep 8th, 8pm: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-network/2006-September/0901-73.html
Sep 08 20:08:14 ana	ok let's go to agenda ...
Sep 08 20:08:19 shiar	right
Sep 08 20:08:23 shiar	1. venue
Sep 08 20:08:35 shiar	2. date
Sep 08 20:08:46 shiar	3. draft agenda
Sep 08 20:09:03 shiar	4. programme?
Sep 08 20:09:09 *	ana has changed the topic to: Please don't disturb, Irc network meeting going on - http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-network/2006-September/0901-73.html - if you want to join this channel for the meeting, please ask for the logs to be typed for you in private. thanks
Sep 08 20:09:40 shiar	anything else?
Sep 08 20:09:52 ana	not for now
Sep 08 20:09:55 ana	so, venue
Sep 08 20:10:23 shiar	ok, since i proposed holding the meeting at the Cottage social centre in Birmingham...
Sep 08 20:10:44 shiar	there have been 2 new develop
Sep 08 20:11:03 shiar	1. the council have got a possession order
Sep 08 20:11:14 shiar	so we could be evicted anytime soon
Sep 08 20:11:37 shiar	2. there is a sort of war going on on between the local 'kids' and the collective
Sep 08 20:11:56 shiar	and this, as well as other things, has put a lot of people off
Sep 08 20:12:13 shiar	so it might be worth reconsidering the venue
Sep 08 20:12:15 phunkee	well i wouldn't put it entirely like that
Sep 08 20:12:27 shiar	go on
Sep 08 20:12:48 phunkee	there are problems with 3 local young people that a minority of the collective insist on not supervising
Sep 08 20:13:00 phunkee	and problems have escalated
Sep 08 20:13:26 phunkee	it's kinda embarassing
Sep 08 20:13:35 *	phunkee ends
Sep 08 20:13:48 ana	:)
Sep 08 20:13:53 shiar	anyway, this is a prob for the cottage to deal with. the point is, it's not really the ideal place to have a netwok meeting
Sep 08 20:14:00 ana	so birmiingham is out of the question then ...
Sep 08 20:14:03 *	phunkee nods
Sep 08 20:14:15 shiar	i'd propose we go back to the common place
Sep 08 20:14:15 ana	was that our only option?
Sep 08 20:14:22 shiar	in leeds
Sep 08 20:15:01 shiar	any objections?
Sep 08 20:15:13 ana	no, that is not the question
Sep 08 20:15:24 ana	the question is, is there any one from leeds here that is going to make it happen?
Sep 08 20:15:55 shiar	they need someone to formally ask them, from what i remember
Sep 08 20:16:06 shiar	ekes couldn't make it today
Sep 08 20:16:38 ana	ok so venue is not fixed ...
Sep 08 20:16:45 shiar	nope
Sep 08 20:16:56 ana	well, if leeds is not available either i can ask rampart, london, tomorrow or monday
Sep 08 20:17:13 shiar	so shall we write to them adn see if early oct is available
Sep 08 20:17:24 ana	to whom?
Sep 08 20:17:32 shiar	leeds
Sep 08 20:17:38 ana	sure
Sep 08 20:17:56 shiar	there was alos a feeling that london should be avoided if possible
Sep 08 20:18:53 shiar	ok, who wants to write to leeds?
Sep 08 20:19:35 ana	i can do , but let's get on with proposing dates and agenda ...
Sep 08 20:19:49 shiar	ok
Sep 08 20:19:50 ana	are we thinking late octobe then?
Sep 08 20:19:58 shiar	early oct
Sep 08 20:20:05 shiar	that was the original proposal
Sep 08 20:20:18 ana	yes but it is a bit short notice now isn't it?
Sep 08 20:20:28 ana	to expect to have a social centre available for a full weekend?
Sep 08 20:20:40 *	shiar nods
Sep 08 20:20:44 ana	and for people who work weekends to give notice at work?
Sep 08 20:20:59 shiar	well, it's a month
Sep 08 20:21:10 ana	these things are usually prepared/fixed like, 3 months in advance ...
Sep 08 20:22:05 ana	ok when i ask leeds i will ask for either 7-8, 14-15 or 21-22 october
Sep 08 20:22:10 ana	3. agenda?
Sep 08 20:22:46 shiar	21 is the anarchist bookfair in london so..
Sep 08 20:23:48 phunkee	it'll be a riot  :O 
Sep 08 20:24:22 ana	ok so either 7 or 14 october
Sep 08 20:24:31 *	shiar nods
Sep 08 20:24:43 shiar	shall we move on?
Sep 08 20:26:36 shiar	Agneda: 1. website
Sep 08 20:26:45 shiar	a. promoted newswire
Sep 08 20:26:56 shiar	b. non-linear startpage
Sep 08 20:27:17 shiar	c. other press/blogs section
Sep 08 20:28:05 shiar	that should be one session imo
Sep 08 20:28:21 shiar	anything else to do with website?
Sep 08 20:28:26 ana	another session should be training ...
Sep 08 20:28:36 ana	training for admin, i thinik
Sep 08 20:28:40 ana	think
Sep 08 20:28:42 shiar	ok
Sep 08 20:29:35 phunkee	hey moderation would be good to discuss, particularly about contested concepts like zionism and anti-semitism...
Sep 08 20:29:44 *	phunkee that'll be popular ;)
Sep 08 20:30:06 shiar	yeah, moderation should be seriously discussed
Sep 08 20:30:12 shiar	would be good if someone could come up with a materialised proposal re the non-linear startpage beforehand
Sep 08 20:30:55 shiar	ok
Sep 08 20:34:23 shiar	what else?
Sep 08 20:34:25 shiar	shall we try to summarise each of these points?
Sep 08 20:35:07 shiar	a. the promoted newswire have been implemented for while now, and it seems to be working quite well. but the question now is: do we want it to be the default view?
Sep 08 20:35:19 phunkee	erm i wonder if we could discuss the relationship between the uk kollectives and the uk site
Sep 08 20:35:47 shiar	we'll come to that later
Sep 08 20:36:41 shiar	some people, including me, have argued that the promoted nw is not working so well to make it the default view, and this links to the moderation issue
Sep 08 20:37:47 shiar	there's also the question of open publsihing ethos
Sep 08 20:38:37 shiar	my proposal would be to keep it as it is. i think this is good enough for now
Sep 08 20:39:04 *	zak doesn't feel strongly either way, but thinks it should certainly be discussed
Sep 08 20:39:14 shiar	anything else to do with this point?
Sep 08 20:39:38 shiar	sure
Sep 08 20:41:07 shiar	ok then, b.
Sep 08 20:42:40 shiar	b. there was a discussion a while back about the our linear startpage. this was seen as a bit of prob, especially with some really long abstract, so there is one or 2 features occupying the whole startpage.
Sep 08 20:43:19 shiar	the idea was have something more vibrant and interactive, like nyc.indy for example
Sep 08 20:44:08 shiar	as i said, it would be great if some techies could come up with some models to propose at the meeting
Sep 08 20:44:57 shiar	am i the only one talking here? ;)
Sep 08 20:45:27 zak	we've had some thoughts about this locally, including syndicating global indy features into a section of the page -- haven't come up with a working model yet but i'd be keen to restart that
Sep 08 20:45:44 shiar	great
Sep 08 20:45:57 phunkee	hey it would be good to give more prominance to regional kollective's features too
Sep 08 20:46:19 *	shiar nods
Sep 08 20:46:29 phunkee	which ties in with the question about the relationship of the kollecktives to the uk site in terms of how we're presented on the uk site?
Sep 08 20:46:40 shiar	sure
Sep 08 20:46:58 ana	it gives me the impression that this was the actual network meeting, 
Sep 08 20:47:06 shiar	hehe
Sep 08 20:47:07 ana	we are preparing an agenda, don't forget
Sep 08 20:47:28 shiar	yeah, we try to summarise for the minutes
Sep 08 20:47:31 ana	btw who is going to collate these logs into a summary?
Sep 08 20:47:33 phunkee	sure - we're just chatting
Sep 08 20:47:51 shiar	ok then, c.
Sep 08 20:48:47 ana	ok that is the last bit of one session
Sep 08 20:49:10 shiar	there was an idea/proposal to have an other press/blogs section to avoid hiding good reposts
Sep 08 20:49:17 ana	yes, that is point c
Sep 08 20:49:24 ana	any other points for 'website'?
Sep 08 20:49:33 ana	i propose ...
Sep 08 20:49:43 shiar	again, this could be incorporated with the non-liear startpage thing
Sep 08 20:50:04 ana	yes - can we get onwith creating an agenda?
Sep 08 20:50:10 shiar	yup
Sep 08 20:50:23 ana	d. deleting people's personal information to avoid attacks on people's homes
Sep 08 20:50:48 phunkee	so privacy issues
Sep 08 20:50:48 ana	(might also be included in general moderation tho)
Sep 08 20:51:03 phunkee	are we any nearer to a privacy statement?
Sep 08 20:51:14 zak	but it's contentious enough (as i recall from last year's network meeting) that it probably needs its own space
Sep 08 20:51:20 shiar	should that be a separate session. like legal and dinancial stuff 
Sep 08 20:51:22 *	phunkee nods
Sep 08 20:51:46 ana	e. some proposal to make the promoted newswire the default one
Sep 08 20:52:08 ana	ok that is another possibility ... i would not too much discuss what would go in each section then ..
Sep 08 20:52:09 zak	wasn't the promoted newswire (a)?
Sep 08 20:52:29 ana	ah sorry
Sep 08 20:52:29 phunkee	yep
Sep 08 20:52:30 ana	ok
Sep 08 20:52:46 ana	ok so , so far we have one section - the newswire
Sep 08 20:52:54 ana	sorry the website!
Sep 08 20:53:11 ana	another section (or was it session?)
Sep 08 20:53:19 ana	should be the server ... should it?
Sep 08 20:53:40 ana	or servers?
Sep 08 20:53:50 zak	just before we move on
Sep 08 20:54:27 ana	yes zak?
Sep 08 20:54:40 zak	another website point is the long-term view, given the stuff coming out of recent global tech meetings about shifting towards standard CMSes rather than the custom ones we're using at the moment
Sep 08 20:54:58 zak	i don't know if we want to give some thought to that in relation to the UK, or whether it's too early for that
Sep 08 20:55:10 ana	would that not be a tech meeting?
Sep 08 20:55:26 ana	personally i think it is too early
Sep 08 20:55:38 ana	but it would be possible to have it like a workshop, maybe,
Sep 08 20:55:51 ana	at the same time as other thigns so just interested people attend to it?
Sep 08 20:56:04 shiar	to avoid confusion, let's use numbers for sessions and letters for points/issues
Sep 08 20:56:05 zak	yeah it might be more something to have an informal chat about at this stage than an actual session
Sep 08 20:56:25 ana	for instance, i might be wrong, but i would imagine more 'veteran' people interested on zak's point 
Sep 08 20:56:34 zak	yeah i certainly don't think it's one for a plenary session
Sep 08 20:56:35 ana	and more 'newer' would be interested in some training ...
Sep 08 20:56:47 ana	shiar, i get 'confused' by numbers and letters ...
Sep 08 20:57:01 ana	nubmers and letters can be put later in the minutes ... i think
Sep 08 20:57:04 *	phunkee noticed
Sep 08 20:57:32 ana	are we proposing to have it like other years,
Sep 08 20:57:38 ana	first plennary, then separations, 
Sep 08 20:57:43 ana	then report backs and plennary again?
Sep 08 20:57:59 *	zak was assuming so, unless someone has a proposed alternative
Sep 08 20:58:14 ana	ok i just wanted to clarify, hmmm
Sep 08 20:58:31 ana	i would propose that on the first plennary we had a very short presentation of each collective, or kollective,
Sep 08 20:58:44 ana	including wales, who are currently talking of becoming an indymedia ...
Sep 08 20:59:19 shiar	well, uk-regions should be a separte session imo
Sep 08 20:59:26 shiar	and that includes...
Sep 08 20:59:33 ana	i think as an intro it would be a nice start-up
Sep 08 20:59:46 shiar	a.  inactive kollectives/new kollectives
Sep 08 21:00:08 shiar	b.  lack of features on regional sites
Sep 08 21:00:12 shiar	maybe not
Sep 08 21:00:29 shiar	c.  syndication of regional features on UK newswire
Sep 08 21:00:37 ana	shiar what do you mean a separate session?
Sep 08 21:00:44 ana	what do you call a separate session
Sep 08 21:00:57 ana	a session separate from the rest of the people, when the separate workshops occur?
Sep 08 21:01:40 shiar	like a bunch of related issues to be discussed in one sit-down
Sep 08 21:02:10 shiar	call it a workshop or whatever
Sep 08 21:02:11 ana	is a sit-down a plenarry, a small meeting, or what?
Sep 08 21:03:11 shiar	plenary i guess
Sep 08 21:03:20 ana	ok we agree then
Sep 08 21:03:33 ana	it's just that i'm proposing to have it as a nice introduction
Sep 08 21:03:46 shiar	right
Sep 08 21:03:53 ana	just in case new people come to the meeting and it's not too clear what we 're talking about
Sep 08 21:04:08 shiar	ok
Sep 08 21:04:26 shiar	so what have we got so far?
Sep 08 21:04:38 ana	i'd rather go for what we still dont have :-)
Sep 08 21:05:08 ana	i would like to have some kind of feedback from the pga conference too,
Sep 08 21:05:18 ana	at least in the issues that affect indymedia
Sep 08 21:05:33 ana	like servers, security issues, ...
Sep 08 21:05:42 ana	legal issues?
Sep 08 21:05:46 shiar	there was an email on the list with lots of links
Sep 08 21:05:59 shiar	yeah, legal and financial stuff
Sep 08 21:06:07 ana	i read all minutes available from digital struggles yesterday ...
Sep 08 21:06:36 ana	legal and financial relating to servers or to indymedia uk in general?
Sep 08 21:06:46 shiar	general
Sep 08 21:06:53 ana	k
Sep 08 21:07:09 ana	i think thouse could do with separate workshops rather than plennary?
Sep 08 21:07:25 *	shiar nods
Sep 08 21:07:54 ana	on an aside,
Sep 08 21:08:19 ana	i would like to have a separate, althouth somewhat related meeting/workshops
Sep 08 21:08:19 shiar	can't think of anything else :P
Sep 08 21:08:21 ana	about aktivix#
Sep 08 21:08:37 ana	like indymedia, having small meetings in pga meetings ;-)
Sep 08 21:08:51 ana	and aktivix also has a server so it would help
Sep 08 21:08:55 *	zak thinks there's enough overlap that that's a good idea
Sep 08 21:09:36 ana	maybe we should also discuss global relations ...
Sep 08 21:09:43 ana	we don't have a single liaison right now
Sep 08 21:09:54 ana	only loose individuals who occasionally forward stuff
Sep 08 21:10:08 ana	but that would be a 2-minute thing on a plenary
Sep 08 21:10:23 ana	ah! administration levels
Sep 08 21:10:37 ana	london asked a while ago for different levels of 'admin priviledges'
Sep 08 21:10:49 ana	do i need to explain more?
Sep 08 21:11:04 shiar	yes please
Sep 08 21:12:46 ana	ok, nowadays there are the admins that can hide stuff, and create features
Sep 08 21:12:51 ana	and create topics
Sep 08 21:13:04 ana	and promote
Sep 08 21:13:22 ana	and the admins who can create other admins
Sep 08 21:13:38 ana	and that's it for the purpose of this explanation
Sep 08 21:13:45 shiar	so what's proposal?
Sep 08 21:13:54 ana	to create an intermediate level
Sep 08 21:14:01 shiar	i c
Sep 08 21:14:13 ana	for instance one that could promote stuff but not create or delete topics
Sep 08 21:14:35 shiar	i won't be there anyway, but i'd like to see an editorial worshop focusing on investigative journalism and 'high-quality' features
Sep 08 21:14:39 ana	and have the buttom that says 'slow generate all new' from the view of most of us
Sep 08 21:14:41 ana	for instance
Sep 08 21:15:13 ana	you wont be there??
Sep 08 21:15:26 shiar	nope :(
Sep 08 21:16:01 ana	why?
Sep 08 21:16:07 ana	we don't even know the dates yet ...
Sep 08 21:16:14 shiar	i won't be in the uk
Sep 08 21:16:19 ana	until when?
Sep 08 21:16:25 shiar	till xmas
Sep 08 21:16:41 *	ana wonders how many people will attend ...
Sep 08 21:16:52 shiar	3 now ;)
Sep 08 21:17:22 shiar	ok, anything else?
Sep 08 21:18:10 ana	next virtual meeting
Sep 08 21:18:19 ana	and who's doing the minutes
Sep 08 21:18:40 shiar	i can do that tomorrow
Sep 08 21:18:51 shiar	but if anyone else can do, please do
Sep 08 21:19:04 shiar	i've got only 2 nights left and so many things to do
Sep 08 21:19:09 ana	i can start today and then send you the stuff and you can add/take out things
Sep 08 21:19:13 ana	ok i can do
Sep 08 21:19:20 shiar	cheers
Sep 08 21:19:25 ana	do we want to meet on a friday again? i propose not
Sep 08 21:19:32 ana	i propose any other evening
Sep 08 21:19:47 shiar	let's see what leeds ppl say first
Sep 08 21:20:03 shiar	and then you can propose a date for the irc meeting
Sep 08 21:20:06 ana	and then propose a virtual meeting?
Sep 08 21:20:14 shiar	yup
Sep 08 21:20:19 ana	no reason to not get it fixed now ...
Sep 08 21:20:30 ana	we can fix it for a week and a half from now
Sep 08 21:20:38 ana	enoughtime to get a yes/no answer from them?
Sep 08 21:20:46 shiar	what day?
Sep 08 21:20:47 zak	tues 19th?
Sep 08 21:20:55 shiar	fine with me
Sep 08 21:21:18 shiar	8pm again?
Sep 08 21:21:28 zak	fine by me
Sep 08 21:21:46 *	zak hopes we can get more people to show up
Sep 08 21:21:58 *	phunkee or contribute
Sep 08 21:22:00 shiar	to show up and talk :P
Sep 08 21:22:28 shiar	is that is then?
Sep 08 21:22:53 zak	there was quite a bit of enthusiasm amongst those i saw at the climate camp, but i see very few of them here!
Sep 08 21:23:37 shiar	yeah
Sep 08 21:23:47 *	shiar has changed the topic to: Irc network finished, you can disturb now :P
Sep 08 21:24:04 *	ana hopes too
Sep 08 21:24:19 ana	zak did n't see you at climate camp?
Sep 08 21:24:40 ana	well at least one of them is preparing his defence for a court appearance,
Sep 08 21:24:49 zak	was there sun-weds...
Sep 08 21:24:52 zak	yeah i know :(
Sep 08 21:25:04 ana	the others are full time, or almost full time workers and a friday night is really a bad day to have a meeting
Sep 08 21:25:11 ana	specially an irc meeting
Sep 08 21:25:21 ana	yes i was there from thursday :-/
Sep 08 21:25:32 zak	ah missed you then :(
Sep 08 21:25:56 ana	yes
Sep 08 21:26:09 ana	but good to know that there was an additional person before i arrived
Sep 08 21:26:14 ana	they did need help ...
Sep 08 21:26:40 ana	ah short feedback from climate camp or even from edinbrough would be nice too!
Sep 08 21:27:22 zak	yeah -- would be good to distill some thoughts from those before the next big event
Sep 08 21:27:24 ana	i would like to discuss how effective it is to be in camps like this but i know is useless because people enjoy them too much to not do them ... hehe
Sep 08 21:29:50 zak	i know... i do think it's important to have the facilities for getting images and video up though -- but maybe we need to find a more lightweight way to do it that doesn't take up so many people's time
Sep 08 21:30:35 zak	it often seems that dispatch is done more efficiently off site though
Sep 08 21:32:07 ana	oh gosh
Sep 08 21:32:22 ana	i forgot one important point for agenda: transport vehicle!!
Sep 08 21:33:40 zak	to get kit to/from those kind of events? or for something else?
Sep 08 21:34:01 ana	to get a transport vehicle on a permanent basis,
Sep 08 21:34:23 ana	so that we don't have to rely on people's personal vehicles and/or look frantically for one as the date approaches
Sep 08 21:34:33 *	phunkee (phunkee@localhost) has left #uk
Sep 08 21:34:48 ana	and of course it would be used for general stuff as well, maybe by some wider community ...
Sep 08 21:35:05 zak	it would be useful when we do major events, though i wonder if we do them often enough to justify maintaining a vehicle on a permanent basis
Sep 08 21:35:11 ana	it has been a dream in london to have a van or something for years, but now i can 'touch' the need, if you see what i mean...