ImcUk8Sept2006
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This page is out of date, refer to https://docs.indymedia.org/view/Local/UkNetworkMeeting2006irc8Sept2006 instead.
Minutes irc meeting 8 Sep 06 8 - 9.30pm aprox.
Minutes
venue
The proposed venue in Birmingham is not an option any more.
The alternative is leeds - they have already been asked about either 7 or 14 october - not 21 because it is the anarchist bookfair in london. Stuart from Leeds answered on imc-uk-process list that mid-november would be ok for Commonplace: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-process/2006-September/0915-m7.html
Another alternative, if leeds is not available either, could be rampart, london, but it is understood that london should be avoided.
date
We realise that a months notice could be too short notice for people to take the time off and for the venue.
draft agenda
1. website a. promoted newswire b. non-linear startpage c. other press/blogs section d. training for admin e. moderation f. privacy issues g. kollectives
a. the promoted newswire have been implemented for while now, and it seems to be working quite well. but the question now is: do we want it to be the default view? some people have argued that the promoted nw is not working so well to make it the default view, and this links to the moderation issue there's also the question of open publsihing ethos.
b. there was a discussion a while back about the our linear startpage. this was seen as a bit of problem, especially with some really long abstract, so there is one or 2 features occupying the whole startpage. the idea was have something more vibrant and interactive, like nyc.indy for example.
f. deleting people's personal information to avoid attacks on people's homes - might also be included in general moderation though. It's contentious enough, it probably needs its own space
3. relationship between the uk kollectives and the uk site
more prominance to regional kollective's features too - how we're presented on the uk site?
4. legal and financial stuff
5. the server or servers?
6. long-term view, given the stuff coming out of recent global tech meetings about shifting towards standard CMSes rather than the custom ones we're using at the moment
(6. possibly as a workshop, or separate section at the same time as a mir training, for instance - not one for a plenary session)
programme
We work on the basis of having it like other years, first plennary, then separations, then report backs and plennary again. Unless someone has a proposed alternative.
On the first plennary, to start with, short presentation of each collective, or kollective, that attends.
back to 3. draft agenda
g. kollectives
a. inactive kollectives/new kollectives b. lack of features on regional sites c. syndication of regional features on UK newswire
h. feedback from the pga conference
at least in the issues that affect indymedia, servers, security issues, i. legal and financial stuff
separate workshops rather than plennary
j. aktivix
also separate workshop - like when indymedia has small meetings in pga conferences
k. global relations ... we don't have a single liaison right now
(that would be a 2-minute thing on a plenary)
l. administration levels
london asked a while ago for different levels of 'admin priviledges'. nowadays there are the admins that can hide stuff, and create features, and create topics, and promote, and the admins who can create other admins, and that's it. proposal to create an intermediate level, for instance one that could promote stuff but not create or delete topics.
m. worshop on investigative journalism and 'high-quality' features
n. short feedback from climate camp or even from edinbrough
to distill some thoughts from those before the next big event, how effective it is to be in camps like these; maybe we need to find a more lightweight way to do it that doesn't take up so many people's time, it often seems that dispatch is done more efficiently off site though
o. transport vehicle
to get kit to/from those kind of events, but having it on a permanent basis
Next irc meeting
Tues 19th at 8pm again
Complete Logs
Sep 08 19:39:33 * Topic for #uk is: Irc network meeting: Fri, Sep 8th, 8pm: http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-network/2006-September/0901-73.html Sep 08 20:08:14 ana ok let's go to agenda ... Sep 08 20:08:19 shiar right Sep 08 20:08:23 shiar 1. venue Sep 08 20:08:35 shiar 2. date Sep 08 20:08:46 shiar 3. draft agenda Sep 08 20:09:03 shiar 4. programme? Sep 08 20:09:09 * ana has changed the topic to: Please don't disturb, Irc network meeting going on - http://lists.indymedia.org/pipermail/imc-uk-network/2006-September/0901-73.html - if you want to join this channel for the meeting, please ask for the logs to be typed for you in private. thanks Sep 08 20:09:40 shiar anything else? Sep 08 20:09:52 ana not for now Sep 08 20:09:55 ana so, venue Sep 08 20:10:23 shiar ok, since i proposed holding the meeting at the Cottage social centre in Birmingham... Sep 08 20:10:44 shiar there have been 2 new develop Sep 08 20:11:03 shiar 1. the council have got a possession order Sep 08 20:11:14 shiar so we could be evicted anytime soon Sep 08 20:11:37 shiar 2. there is a sort of war going on on between the local 'kids' and the collective Sep 08 20:11:56 shiar and this, as well as other things, has put a lot of people off Sep 08 20:12:13 shiar so it might be worth reconsidering the venue Sep 08 20:12:15 phunkee well i wouldn't put it entirely like that Sep 08 20:12:27 shiar go on Sep 08 20:12:48 phunkee there are problems with 3 local young people that a minority of the collective insist on not supervising Sep 08 20:13:00 phunkee and problems have escalated Sep 08 20:13:26 phunkee it's kinda embarassing Sep 08 20:13:35 * phunkee ends Sep 08 20:13:48 ana :) Sep 08 20:13:53 shiar anyway, this is a prob for the cottage to deal with. the point is, it's not really the ideal place to have a netwok meeting Sep 08 20:14:00 ana so birmiingham is out of the question then ... Sep 08 20:14:03 * phunkee nods Sep 08 20:14:15 shiar i'd propose we go back to the common place Sep 08 20:14:15 ana was that our only option? Sep 08 20:14:22 shiar in leeds Sep 08 20:15:01 shiar any objections? Sep 08 20:15:13 ana no, that is not the question Sep 08 20:15:24 ana the question is, is there any one from leeds here that is going to make it happen? Sep 08 20:15:55 shiar they need someone to formally ask them, from what i remember Sep 08 20:16:06 shiar ekes couldn't make it today Sep 08 20:16:38 ana ok so venue is not fixed ... Sep 08 20:16:45 shiar nope Sep 08 20:16:56 ana well, if leeds is not available either i can ask rampart, london, tomorrow or monday Sep 08 20:17:13 shiar so shall we write to them adn see if early oct is available Sep 08 20:17:24 ana to whom? Sep 08 20:17:32 shiar leeds Sep 08 20:17:38 ana sure Sep 08 20:17:56 shiar there was alos a feeling that london should be avoided if possible Sep 08 20:18:53 shiar ok, who wants to write to leeds? Sep 08 20:19:35 ana i can do , but let's get on with proposing dates and agenda ... Sep 08 20:19:49 shiar ok Sep 08 20:19:50 ana are we thinking late octobe then? Sep 08 20:19:58 shiar early oct Sep 08 20:20:05 shiar that was the original proposal Sep 08 20:20:18 ana yes but it is a bit short notice now isn't it? Sep 08 20:20:28 ana to expect to have a social centre available for a full weekend? Sep 08 20:20:40 * shiar nods Sep 08 20:20:44 ana and for people who work weekends to give notice at work? Sep 08 20:20:59 shiar well, it's a month Sep 08 20:21:10 ana these things are usually prepared/fixed like, 3 months in advance ... Sep 08 20:22:05 ana ok when i ask leeds i will ask for either 7-8, 14-15 or 21-22 october Sep 08 20:22:10 ana 3. agenda? Sep 08 20:22:46 shiar 21 is the anarchist bookfair in london so.. Sep 08 20:23:48 phunkee it'll be a riot :O Sep 08 20:24:22 ana ok so either 7 or 14 october Sep 08 20:24:31 * shiar nods Sep 08 20:24:43 shiar shall we move on? Sep 08 20:26:36 shiar Agneda: 1. website Sep 08 20:26:45 shiar a. promoted newswire Sep 08 20:26:56 shiar b. non-linear startpage Sep 08 20:27:17 shiar c. other press/blogs section Sep 08 20:28:05 shiar that should be one session imo Sep 08 20:28:21 shiar anything else to do with website? Sep 08 20:28:26 ana another session should be training ... Sep 08 20:28:36 ana training for admin, i thinik Sep 08 20:28:40 ana think Sep 08 20:28:42 shiar ok Sep 08 20:29:35 phunkee hey moderation would be good to discuss, particularly about contested concepts like zionism and anti-semitism... Sep 08 20:29:44 * phunkee that'll be popular ;) Sep 08 20:30:06 shiar yeah, moderation should be seriously discussed Sep 08 20:30:12 shiar would be good if someone could come up with a materialised proposal re the non-linear startpage beforehand Sep 08 20:30:55 shiar ok Sep 08 20:34:23 shiar what else? Sep 08 20:34:25 shiar shall we try to summarise each of these points? Sep 08 20:35:07 shiar a. the promoted newswire have been implemented for while now, and it seems to be working quite well. but the question now is: do we want it to be the default view? Sep 08 20:35:19 phunkee erm i wonder if we could discuss the relationship between the uk kollectives and the uk site Sep 08 20:35:47 shiar we'll come to that later Sep 08 20:36:41 shiar some people, including me, have argued that the promoted nw is not working so well to make it the default view, and this links to the moderation issue Sep 08 20:37:47 shiar there's also the question of open publsihing ethos Sep 08 20:38:37 shiar my proposal would be to keep it as it is. i think this is good enough for now Sep 08 20:39:04 * zak doesn't feel strongly either way, but thinks it should certainly be discussed Sep 08 20:39:14 shiar anything else to do with this point? Sep 08 20:39:38 shiar sure Sep 08 20:41:07 shiar ok then, b. Sep 08 20:42:40 shiar b. there was a discussion a while back about the our linear startpage. this was seen as a bit of prob, especially with some really long abstract, so there is one or 2 features occupying the whole startpage. Sep 08 20:43:19 shiar the idea was have something more vibrant and interactive, like nyc.indy for example Sep 08 20:44:08 shiar as i said, it would be great if some techies could come up with some models to propose at the meeting Sep 08 20:44:57 shiar am i the only one talking here? ;) Sep 08 20:45:27 zak we've had some thoughts about this locally, including syndicating global indy features into a section of the page -- haven't come up with a working model yet but i'd be keen to restart that Sep 08 20:45:44 shiar great Sep 08 20:45:57 phunkee hey it would be good to give more prominance to regional kollective's features too Sep 08 20:46:19 * shiar nods Sep 08 20:46:29 phunkee which ties in with the question about the relationship of the kollecktives to the uk site in terms of how we're presented on the uk site? Sep 08 20:46:40 shiar sure Sep 08 20:46:58 ana it gives me the impression that this was the actual network meeting, Sep 08 20:47:06 shiar hehe Sep 08 20:47:07 ana we are preparing an agenda, don't forget Sep 08 20:47:28 shiar yeah, we try to summarise for the minutes Sep 08 20:47:31 ana btw who is going to collate these logs into a summary? Sep 08 20:47:33 phunkee sure - we're just chatting Sep 08 20:47:51 shiar ok then, c. Sep 08 20:48:47 ana ok that is the last bit of one session Sep 08 20:49:10 shiar there was an idea/proposal to have an other press/blogs section to avoid hiding good reposts Sep 08 20:49:17 ana yes, that is point c Sep 08 20:49:24 ana any other points for 'website'? Sep 08 20:49:33 ana i propose ... Sep 08 20:49:43 shiar again, this could be incorporated with the non-liear startpage thing Sep 08 20:50:04 ana yes - can we get onwith creating an agenda? Sep 08 20:50:10 shiar yup Sep 08 20:50:23 ana d. deleting people's personal information to avoid attacks on people's homes Sep 08 20:50:48 phunkee so privacy issues Sep 08 20:50:48 ana (might also be included in general moderation tho) Sep 08 20:51:03 phunkee are we any nearer to a privacy statement? Sep 08 20:51:14 zak but it's contentious enough (as i recall from last year's network meeting) that it probably needs its own space Sep 08 20:51:20 shiar should that be a separate session. like legal and dinancial stuff Sep 08 20:51:22 * phunkee nods Sep 08 20:51:46 ana e. some proposal to make the promoted newswire the default one Sep 08 20:52:08 ana ok that is another possibility ... i would not too much discuss what would go in each section then .. Sep 08 20:52:09 zak wasn't the promoted newswire (a)? Sep 08 20:52:29 ana ah sorry Sep 08 20:52:29 phunkee yep Sep 08 20:52:30 ana ok Sep 08 20:52:46 ana ok so , so far we have one section - the newswire Sep 08 20:52:54 ana sorry the website! Sep 08 20:53:11 ana another section (or was it session?) Sep 08 20:53:19 ana should be the server ... should it? Sep 08 20:53:40 ana or servers? Sep 08 20:53:50 zak just before we move on Sep 08 20:54:27 ana yes zak? Sep 08 20:54:40 zak another website point is the long-term view, given the stuff coming out of recent global tech meetings about shifting towards standard CMSes rather than the custom ones we're using at the moment Sep 08 20:54:58 zak i don't know if we want to give some thought to that in relation to the UK, or whether it's too early for that Sep 08 20:55:10 ana would that not be a tech meeting? Sep 08 20:55:26 ana personally i think it is too early Sep 08 20:55:38 ana but it would be possible to have it like a workshop, maybe, Sep 08 20:55:51 ana at the same time as other thigns so just interested people attend to it? Sep 08 20:56:04 shiar to avoid confusion, let's use numbers for sessions and letters for points/issues Sep 08 20:56:05 zak yeah it might be more something to have an informal chat about at this stage than an actual session Sep 08 20:56:25 ana for instance, i might be wrong, but i would imagine more 'veteran' people interested on zak's point Sep 08 20:56:34 zak yeah i certainly don't think it's one for a plenary session Sep 08 20:56:35 ana and more 'newer' would be interested in some training ... Sep 08 20:56:47 ana shiar, i get 'confused' by numbers and letters ... Sep 08 20:57:01 ana nubmers and letters can be put later in the minutes ... i think Sep 08 20:57:04 * phunkee noticed Sep 08 20:57:32 ana are we proposing to have it like other years, Sep 08 20:57:38 ana first plennary, then separations, Sep 08 20:57:43 ana then report backs and plennary again? Sep 08 20:57:59 * zak was assuming so, unless someone has a proposed alternative Sep 08 20:58:14 ana ok i just wanted to clarify, hmmm Sep 08 20:58:31 ana i would propose that on the first plennary we had a very short presentation of each collective, or kollective, Sep 08 20:58:44 ana including wales, who are currently talking of becoming an indymedia ... Sep 08 20:59:19 shiar well, uk-regions should be a separte session imo Sep 08 20:59:26 shiar and that includes... Sep 08 20:59:33 ana i think as an intro it would be a nice start-up Sep 08 20:59:46 shiar a. inactive kollectives/new kollectives Sep 08 21:00:08 shiar b. lack of features on regional sites Sep 08 21:00:12 shiar maybe not Sep 08 21:00:29 shiar c. syndication of regional features on UK newswire Sep 08 21:00:37 ana shiar what do you mean a separate session? Sep 08 21:00:44 ana what do you call a separate session Sep 08 21:00:57 ana a session separate from the rest of the people, when the separate workshops occur? Sep 08 21:01:40 shiar like a bunch of related issues to be discussed in one sit-down Sep 08 21:02:10 shiar call it a workshop or whatever Sep 08 21:02:11 ana is a sit-down a plenarry, a small meeting, or what? Sep 08 21:03:11 shiar plenary i guess Sep 08 21:03:20 ana ok we agree then Sep 08 21:03:33 ana it's just that i'm proposing to have it as a nice introduction Sep 08 21:03:46 shiar right Sep 08 21:03:53 ana just in case new people come to the meeting and it's not too clear what we 're talking about Sep 08 21:04:08 shiar ok Sep 08 21:04:26 shiar so what have we got so far? Sep 08 21:04:38 ana i'd rather go for what we still dont have :-) Sep 08 21:05:08 ana i would like to have some kind of feedback from the pga conference too, Sep 08 21:05:18 ana at least in the issues that affect indymedia Sep 08 21:05:33 ana like servers, security issues, ... Sep 08 21:05:42 ana legal issues? Sep 08 21:05:46 shiar there was an email on the list with lots of links Sep 08 21:05:59 shiar yeah, legal and financial stuff Sep 08 21:06:07 ana i read all minutes available from digital struggles yesterday ... Sep 08 21:06:36 ana legal and financial relating to servers or to indymedia uk in general? Sep 08 21:06:46 shiar general Sep 08 21:06:53 ana k Sep 08 21:07:09 ana i think thouse could do with separate workshops rather than plennary? Sep 08 21:07:25 * shiar nods Sep 08 21:07:54 ana on an aside, Sep 08 21:08:19 ana i would like to have a separate, althouth somewhat related meeting/workshops Sep 08 21:08:19 shiar can't think of anything else :P Sep 08 21:08:21 ana about aktivix# Sep 08 21:08:37 ana like indymedia, having small meetings in pga meetings ;-) Sep 08 21:08:51 ana and aktivix also has a server so it would help Sep 08 21:08:55 * zak thinks there's enough overlap that that's a good idea Sep 08 21:09:36 ana maybe we should also discuss global relations ... Sep 08 21:09:43 ana we don't have a single liaison right now Sep 08 21:09:54 ana only loose individuals who occasionally forward stuff Sep 08 21:10:08 ana but that would be a 2-minute thing on a plenary Sep 08 21:10:23 ana ah! administration levels Sep 08 21:10:37 ana london asked a while ago for different levels of 'admin priviledges' Sep 08 21:10:49 ana do i need to explain more? Sep 08 21:11:04 shiar yes please Sep 08 21:12:46 ana ok, nowadays there are the admins that can hide stuff, and create features Sep 08 21:12:51 ana and create topics Sep 08 21:13:04 ana and promote Sep 08 21:13:22 ana and the admins who can create other admins Sep 08 21:13:38 ana and that's it for the purpose of this explanation Sep 08 21:13:45 shiar so what's proposal? Sep 08 21:13:54 ana to create an intermediate level Sep 08 21:14:01 shiar i c Sep 08 21:14:13 ana for instance one that could promote stuff but not create or delete topics Sep 08 21:14:35 shiar i won't be there anyway, but i'd like to see an editorial worshop focusing on investigative journalism and 'high-quality' features Sep 08 21:14:39 ana and have the buttom that says 'slow generate all new' from the view of most of us Sep 08 21:14:41 ana for instance Sep 08 21:15:13 ana you wont be there?? Sep 08 21:15:26 shiar nope :( Sep 08 21:16:01 ana why? Sep 08 21:16:07 ana we don't even know the dates yet ... Sep 08 21:16:14 shiar i won't be in the uk Sep 08 21:16:19 ana until when? Sep 08 21:16:25 shiar till xmas Sep 08 21:16:41 * ana wonders how many people will attend ... Sep 08 21:16:52 shiar 3 now ;) Sep 08 21:17:22 shiar ok, anything else? Sep 08 21:18:10 ana next virtual meeting Sep 08 21:18:19 ana and who's doing the minutes Sep 08 21:18:40 shiar i can do that tomorrow Sep 08 21:18:51 shiar but if anyone else can do, please do Sep 08 21:19:04 shiar i've got only 2 nights left and so many things to do Sep 08 21:19:09 ana i can start today and then send you the stuff and you can add/take out things Sep 08 21:19:13 ana ok i can do Sep 08 21:19:20 shiar cheers Sep 08 21:19:25 ana do we want to meet on a friday again? i propose not Sep 08 21:19:32 ana i propose any other evening Sep 08 21:19:47 shiar let's see what leeds ppl say first Sep 08 21:20:03 shiar and then you can propose a date for the irc meeting Sep 08 21:20:06 ana and then propose a virtual meeting? Sep 08 21:20:14 shiar yup Sep 08 21:20:19 ana no reason to not get it fixed now ... Sep 08 21:20:30 ana we can fix it for a week and a half from now Sep 08 21:20:38 ana enoughtime to get a yes/no answer from them? Sep 08 21:20:46 shiar what day? Sep 08 21:20:47 zak tues 19th? Sep 08 21:20:55 shiar fine with me Sep 08 21:21:18 shiar 8pm again? Sep 08 21:21:28 zak fine by me Sep 08 21:21:46 * zak hopes we can get more people to show up Sep 08 21:21:58 * phunkee or contribute Sep 08 21:22:00 shiar to show up and talk :P Sep 08 21:22:28 shiar is that is then? Sep 08 21:22:53 zak there was quite a bit of enthusiasm amongst those i saw at the climate camp, but i see very few of them here! Sep 08 21:23:37 shiar yeah Sep 08 21:23:47 * shiar has changed the topic to: Irc network finished, you can disturb now :P Sep 08 21:24:04 * ana hopes too Sep 08 21:24:19 ana zak did n't see you at climate camp? Sep 08 21:24:40 ana well at least one of them is preparing his defence for a court appearance, Sep 08 21:24:49 zak was there sun-weds... Sep 08 21:24:52 zak yeah i know :( Sep 08 21:25:04 ana the others are full time, or almost full time workers and a friday night is really a bad day to have a meeting Sep 08 21:25:11 ana specially an irc meeting Sep 08 21:25:21 ana yes i was there from thursday :-/ Sep 08 21:25:32 zak ah missed you then :( Sep 08 21:25:56 ana yes Sep 08 21:26:09 ana but good to know that there was an additional person before i arrived Sep 08 21:26:14 ana they did need help ... Sep 08 21:26:40 ana ah short feedback from climate camp or even from edinbrough would be nice too! Sep 08 21:27:22 zak yeah -- would be good to distill some thoughts from those before the next big event Sep 08 21:27:24 ana i would like to discuss how effective it is to be in camps like this but i know is useless because people enjoy them too much to not do them ... hehe Sep 08 21:29:50 zak i know... i do think it's important to have the facilities for getting images and video up though -- but maybe we need to find a more lightweight way to do it that doesn't take up so many people's time Sep 08 21:30:35 zak it often seems that dispatch is done more efficiently off site though Sep 08 21:32:07 ana oh gosh Sep 08 21:32:22 ana i forgot one important point for agenda: transport vehicle!! Sep 08 21:33:40 zak to get kit to/from those kind of events? or for something else? Sep 08 21:34:01 ana to get a transport vehicle on a permanent basis, Sep 08 21:34:23 ana so that we don't have to rely on people's personal vehicles and/or look frantically for one as the date approaches Sep 08 21:34:33 * phunkee (phunkee@localhost) has left #uk Sep 08 21:34:48 ana and of course it would be used for general stuff as well, maybe by some wider community ... Sep 08 21:35:05 zak it would be useful when we do major events, though i wonder if we do them often enough to justify maintaining a vehicle on a permanent basis Sep 08 21:35:11 ana it has been a dream in london to have a van or something for years, but now i can 'touch' the need, if you see what i mean...